About the Thai Cat

Billy Dean - We Just Disagree song

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Thai Cats

" The main thing history can teach us is that human actions have consequences and that certain choices, once made, cannot be undone. They foreclose the possibility of making other choices and thus they determine future events." Gerda Lerner

As an American breeder of registered pedigree old style Siamese I do not want to have the heritage of my Siamese taken away from me. A new breed status in this form is not acceptable. We breed Siamese from original old lines. We can trace our lines back to the first Siamese that came to America at the turn of the 20th century. We will continue to breed our historic old time Siamese and hope for better cooperation between the Siamese breeds in the future.

For breeders and Siamese lovers who's countries lost all their old time Siamese to the progression of show breeding, Thai cats is an option for registering cats who have no registered pedigree. They can be examined and registered as foundation stock and the rebuilding of the breed can move forward. As an example, in the Netherlands a Traditional Siamese lover turned breeder returned from a trip to Ecuador with old-fashioned type Siamese, one male and two females. Most of their Thai cat lines are now based with these Ecuadorian Siamese of unknown parents. They, like Siamese breeders with years of experience, have learned that Siamese of the old type with registered pedigrees that go back more then 50 years are very rare. Breeders in the workgroup are adding lines from other countries including old time Siamese from America to build and produce a genetically healthy cat with the characteristics of the old style Siamese. A breeder of the WTSN selected one of our kittens to be their foundation stud. When taken to a NEOCAT show he was not allowed to compete as a Thai Cat. They would not allow a full blooded Siamese with a registered pedigree to be shown as a Thai Cat. NEOCAT is the equivalent of our CFA.

If you are interested in Showing a Thai Cat in the TICA I recommend contacting one of the breeders of the WTSN in the Netherlands about importing a Thai Cat. The fly time from the Netherlands to New England is about the same as a flight from California or Florida.

Years ago a group of Traditional /Classic style Siamese breeders attempted to have the Traditional and Classic Siamese accepted as breed groups by some top North American cat clubs. Most of the major cat associations have a rule that every breed must have a name unique from the other breeds. For example when the Snowshoe was accepted it could not be called Snowshoe Siamese. CFA has accepted the European Burmese as a breed separate from the American Burmese.

During the discussion with the North American cat clubs old style Siamese breeders were told they would have to have all their Siamese re-registered with a new breed name and their Siamese registrations would be surrendered. The breed would be accepted as an experimental breed. If the new breed was never fully accepted those breeders would not be able to register their kittens as Siamese ever again. A new breed name was never approved as an agreement could not be reached.

In 1990, German breeders petitioned the World Cat Federation to have (old style) moderate Siamese recognized, the WCF allowed the breeders to call their cats Thaikatzen, but they would not allow them to use anything with Siamese in it. Soon the European Group Cat Association (EGCA) and World Felidae United (WFU) followed. Now there are many clubs that recognize the Thai cat as a unique hybrid breed. They cannot be bred to Siamese because they are now known as Thai cats, not Siamese.

On July 24th, 2004 an American old style Siamese preservation club published their opinion that the Thai Cat is out-crossed by some breeders to non-Siamese breeds. It was their position that these hybridized cats do not meet the definition of a Siamese. Seen here, second sentence from the bottom of the first paragraph. Cached internet records show this published opinion remained on the website from 2004 to Feb 27, 2007. The Old-Style Siamese Club UK states " Nearly all of the European-bred old-style Siamese, called 'Thai Siamese' are not actually pure Siamese. Few of them can provide more than a 3-generation pedigree without coming to 'parents unknown' . This is because most of the first European breeders to try to breed old-style Siamese outcrossed to non-oriental breeds to obtain the cobbier look."

The opposition to a new breed name was explained to us in this way. When the Traditional, Classic, Old Style, Old Fashioned, or Original Siamese are renamed (not as Siamese) people soon believe it. This happened to the Snowshoe breeders and Tonkinese breeders. Today it's difficult to convince people that Snowshoes and Tonkinese are basically Siamese cats. I was told the Snowshoes pedigree history shows that they are 99 percent Siamese. Articles are now written that say they are hybrids between Siamese and mongrel or mixed-breed cats. The lecturing expert also cited that people believe the Tonkinese are Siamese/Burmese hybrids, but their pedigrees show that they come from Siamese stock on one side and that the Burmese side is 99 percent Siamese. American cat history shows the Burmese breed was founded on one cat Wong Mao. Wong Mao belonged to Commander Joseph Cheesman Thompson M.D. His Mau Tein Cattery worked with Siamese breeders including Virginia Cobb to develop the Burmese breed.

Thai Cats as a group are an evolving political group. The TICA was petitioned by a German breeder in 2006 to accept the Thai breed. The TICA Thai Cat standard can be read on page 22 of the TICA 2006 Annual Board Meeting Public Minutes pdf.

This document was removed from the internet by the TICA.

Documents can be read on pages 170-172 of the TICA 2006 agenda. Page 173 of the same agenda is the breed standard they submitted. Page 174 is a letter from the Siamese breed group asking for the Thai breed to break all ties to the Siamese breed and Siamese name. This letter clearly shows that the years of discord between the modern show Siamese breeders and the old style Siamese breeders still weigh heavy on the Siamese breed as a whole.

April 2006 TICA Annual Board Meeting Public Minutes - Hannover, Germany, page 15 "“we can work on approving them to PNB pending their standard and out crossing."

47. Motion was made by Fisher and seconded by Parkinson that we advance the Thai to Preliminary New Breed in Category II. Motion carried unanimously.

48. Motion was made by Parkinson and seconded by Christian to appoint Dr.Cristy Byrd (Cristy Bird PhD in Epidemiology) as the Working Breed Group Chair. Motion carried unanimously

Standing Rule 306.8.3.1 was approved to assign registration prefixes used to indicate crosses between members of the THAI breed group and a breed outside the breed group. Prefix chart on page 5 of the 2008 Annual Meeting Minutes, Arlington, TX. see here http://www.tica.org/images/pdf/meeting/annual_2008.pdf

Thai cats are now registered under the TICA rules for registration 307.3 Category II Breeds, Natural Breeds (Page 29). Siamese are a Category I, Established Breed. In the rules it states The purpose of this category is to allow for cats of unknown ancestry to be bred to. This is because they don't want to outcross to established breeds like the Siamese.

37.3 Category II: Natural Breeds.

37.3.1 Purpose. This category is for natural breeds which may have need to augment their gene pool with additional cats of unregistered ancestry but which have little to gain (and perhaps much to lose) by outcrossing to other breeds. For the most part these breeds are ones which originated in specific geographic regions where good representatives of the breed are still to be found in their native state as pets, barn cats, feral cats, etc."

37.3.3 Requirements for Registration. The cat must be the product of two registered representatives of the breed with the exception of cats of unknown or unregistered ancestry ~

~ For a domestic breed, a signed Certificate Form (Form R-1020) from three TICA Allbreed judges must be submitted stating that they have handled the cat in question and find that it sufficiently meets the standard for its breed for use in a breeding program.

In other words domestic shorthairs that look like the breed standard are registered as Thai Cats.

In Europe the GCCF is the equilent of the CFA here in the US. The GCCF registration policy for Thai Cats allows kittens to be registered as Thai if they are born to Korat parents, Thai parents or to one of each. It also requires genetic testing for gangliosidosis. There are two distinct genetic causes of this disease. Both are autosomal recessive and affect males and females equally.

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